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KittyhawkMontrose
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Hi, it's Kittyhawk! I make comics and art, and I also make games with Montrose.

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Newgrounds Allows Grudgemodding. A mod is venting their anger over NSFW and AI by abusing their powers on Users

Posted by KittyhawkMontrose - 18 hours ago


While Tom Fulp is running The Behemoth Booth at PAX Boston, the mods shall play! You probably saw my tweet from a little under a month ago about being banned from the Newgrounds Forums for standing up for myself and another woman in the topic P*rn Artists: How to Deal with Anti-Hornies?, the very thread that I created and had its thesis proven by the Hate Squad showing up, including one with a very “creative” name, and a certain mod showing up to lock the thread. Thanks for proving me right! And they’re still doing so!


The latest grudgemod is I’m being prevented from posting in the Nudegrounds — NG Nude Studies+ thread, a spinoff thread of my locked thread. magianfellow wanted to have a chill hangout for tasteful nudes, which I support because I want everyone to have a good time. A certain mod locked the thread, and left a comment about how it was a duplicate thread (what rule is that?) and their concern it would become “a place where people will just re-post their existing artwork.” (WHAT RULE IS THAT?????)


While you cannot Internet archive A-Rated threads on Newgrounds, you can make PDFs. I have many, and I will link to them throughout the thread. They are NSFW due to an image being posted to the thread, so I will include screenshots. [PDF 1] is a certain mod’s comment on the Nudegrounds thread when it was locked.


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After I assume some going over this mod’s head occurred, the thread was resurrected and users were allowed to post in it again. I thought I could post in there again too. No, I cannot.


When I posted to the thread last night around 12:01am AEST (10:01am EDT) with a link to a piece of art that was well within the topic of the thread, I thought it would stay. It did not. I awoke the next morning to find that my post to the thread had been deleted. I do not have a screenshot of the original post. I didn’t think I’d have to be so freaking careful, documenting my every move because of a mod with a grudge. However I mended my error, and I have every single freaking PDF archive after this.


[PDF 2] is when I reposted to the thread at 9:10am AEST (7:10pm EDT). The post stood through the day, it even had comments referring to the post.


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[PDF 3] is from 10:16am AEST (8:16pm EDT) which includes SirMoony’s posts and my replies.


iu_1396597_7630498.png


When I returned to the thread after my stream which ended at 4:12pm AEST, I saw that my posts and SirMoony’s posts were removed as seen in [PDF 4].


iu_1396598_7630498.png


I once again posted the same thing I had in the morning at 4:16pm AEST (2:16am EDT), seen in [PDF 5], only to see it get removed at 5:21pm AEST (3:21am EDT), which you can see in [PDF 6].


iu_1396599_7630498.png

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I have received no mod mail. I received no communication over why this post has been removed or even why SirMoony’s posts were also removed. I have not been banned or any other action taken against me except for post removal with no mod comment. And these aren’t the only posts of mine that have been removed recently.


In the thread titled AI Scrapping and How to Protect Yourself, my husband @alsoknownas1 and I chimed in with our two cents on what we thought was an open discussion. He mentioned LoRas being trained on Newgrounds art and I mentioned that Bluesky has an API to teach LLMs. We do not have Internet archives of the original posts as we didn’t think we’d have to be so careful, but we do have subsequent archives as we were not banned and allowed to continue to post over and over and over, trying each time to make the post in line with what we thought a certain mod would allow. My husband has gone over this in his Newgrounds News Post.


I am asking @TomFulp why he is allowing a certain mod to continue to grudgemod. If you say I should report it, well, we have. You will see that in the post to my husband’s thread above. I am thankful to the person who interceded on my behalf to Tom and got me unbanned. I am hoping that Tom will once again see that he needs to step in and stop this abuse of mod power for personal reasons, to stifle talk about NSFW and AI, and to ultimately bully my husband and me off the site like hundreds of others have been. Please stop this.


Tags:

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Comments

Like I said in the original lock message, the thread’s intent is to not post explicit images. I thought your art with the sweet-potato sized manhood pushed the limit and felt more like a thread-bump.

The AI stuff was because I said earlier in the thread we don’t need to keep making anti-AI soapbox posts.

I don’t give deletion messages anymore because people will always feel aggrieved regardless of what you do. In the above newspost, you’ve falsely made a link to AI and prudishness.

I did find the rinse-repeat posting of the above posts four times excessive.

TURKEY SAYS:
[Like I said in the original lock message, the thread’s intent is to not post explicit images. I thought your art with the sweet-potato sized manhood pushed the limit and felt more like a thread-bump.

The AI stuff was because I said earlier in the thread we don’t need to keep making anti-AI soapbox posts.

I don’t give deletion messages anymore because people will always feel aggrieved regardless of what you do. In the above newspost, you’ve falsely made a link to AI and prudishness.

I did find the rinse-repeat posting of the above posts four times excessive.]

Can you point me where in the rules it lays out the maximum size a flaccid penis can be in a post to an Adult-Rated thread? Also, yes, replying to a thread will bump it.

You want to stifle speech.

You are dishonest because you do not give reasons.

Sure, excessive, like your grudgemodding. Stop deleting my posts. Let me speak.

@TurkeyOnAStick The topic of the thread was AI! All other posts in the thread you didn't delete were about AI! What in the world are you even talking about? You seem insane.

[edit: The topic of the thread was "AI Scrapping and How to Protect Yourself". My post was about AI scraping. Here it is in its entirety:

"If you go to a popular AI site, that I won't name, and search for NG you'll find at least half a dozen LoRas. Some have obviously been trained on material only available with a login. I'm not really sure what more NG can do, and I'm pretty sure that we're at the point of diminishing returns, but it's something to be aware of. I personally file it under the "sucks but it is what it is" category."]

@alsoknownas1
The topic was about protecting art from AI scraping, and all other posts were about signatures, anti-scraping filters, etc.

Your post was about AI-generated NG characters, which is a topic shift into the done-to-death AI conversation topics.

@TurkeyOnAStick Jesus Christ. How do you think the data was obtained!? SCRAPING! That anti-scraping efforts have already failed seems pretty on topic. An earlier version of that post read:

" which is that NG is scraped pretty regularly and that there are a number of LoRa's floating around"

You deleted the version of the post that explicitly mentioned the scraping, now you want to claim that not being about scraping is why it was deleted. Jesus H man.

Damn

Yep... 🙃

Oh ok, so this is why my latest batch of art also got removed too huh.

Yup, I didn't get yours archived in time, sorry. I did see your post though. I have no idea why yours was removed because it looked fine. You can report this to Tom if you want.

I shouldn't pass judgement on the rest of this stuff because I wasn't involved, but I can understand the decision to remove your image from the artistic nudity thread.
With artistic nudity, most would agree that the term refers to nude portrayals that weren't drawn for the purpose of titillation - to me, the subject is clearly drawn in such a way. The decision to remove the image likely didn't just come down to the sweet potato, but also to presentation.

(I feel like that thread was bound to fail anyways because of the lack of users who draw actual artistic nudity.)

kmau SAYS:
[I shouldn't pass judgement on the rest of this stuff because I wasn't involved, but I can understand the decision to remove your image from the artistic nudity thread.
With artistic nudity, most would agree that the term refers to nude portrayals that weren't drawn for the purpose of titillation - to me, the subject is clearly drawn in such a way. The decision to remove the image likely didn't just come down to the sweet potato, but also to presentation.

(I feel like that thread was bound to fail anyways because of the lack of users who draw actual artistic nudity.]

And yet, here you are, passing judgement. Is it the look he's giving? Is it that you're scared of the "sweet potato"? Because neither of those things make it not a "tasteful nude". A lot of fucking classical art would have to be classified as porn if the look was fucking considered "lewd". So are you saying that Rubens' art is fucking porn? Like, my dude, those asses, that's fucking titillating, but it's still considered "tasteful nudes" because there isn't pussy, an erect dick, or fucking occurring in the scene. This is a picture of single figure, not touching anything erotic, and JUST SITTING WITH HIS DICK FLACCID.

JFC, you're just agreeing with a serial harasser. Stop. Be better than this.

@KittyhawkMontrose The post itself I’m not worried about per se. The purpose behind the deletion is my worry because it wasn’t justified in any way!

Yep, totally unjustified! I'm hoping this will be reversed.

What's the point of thread ratings if you get taken down anyways?

Seems like that mod just likes to wield their power early and often.

Feels a little prejudicial calling people anti-hornies just cause they don't like big bazongas in their feed 24/7. My biggest complaint in the art portal is the inability to filter out horny art, even after disabling M and A (and sometimes even T) categories. I'm not opposed to people drawing saucy things (though there I have concerns about the psychology of horny people on the internet thirsting over drawings, especially young people), but I should have the option to NOT see it if I don't want to.

But yeah, this is a sloppy situation and kinda makes it feel like the newgrounds art forum isn't "Everything by Everyone"

Yep, the mods be crazy.

And I'm with you. I want the fucking ratings enforced. Nothing gets me angrier than when I see certain users get away with panties on display in center-frame Rated E for Everyone rather than M. I think it's because the mods are too overwhelmed for the most part, and then there's specimens like in this thread who are too busy grudgemodding. I want every user to have a good experience too. That's why I rate my stuff accordingly so people like you don't have to see it.

I think the Art Forum could be "Everything by Everyone" again, but there might need to be some changes to the staff.

@kmau Some art could definitely pass off as being drawn for titillation, yes. But I believe that there can be art drawn for that purpose while also remaining tasteful if you understand what I mean. The artist I posted in the thread before (Ziopolyteur) has a lot of art and pinups of nude girls while the direction behind them is not being entirely lewd. Some are less tame than others, that’s a given, and the description plays a role for me too which is why on one of them I was a bit cautious, but I think the whole direction was not to present them in a completely lewd manner, so I posted them in that specific thread.

At least I hope this made sense. I’m sorry if it didn’t.

@larrynachos Yeah. There's this crazy disconnect between the mods and the rest of the staff. Fish works forever to add thread ratings and per image ratings on multi-image posts just for mods to act like those features don't even exist. I wouldn't be so bitter about it if there weren't a backlog of critical bugs (scouting issues anyone?) or constant complaints about lack of funds and overwork.

Why the fuck is the mod even against the NSFW?

Doesn't he know the Newgrounds philosophy?

@TurkeyOnAStick in the rules of the art forum it is said that criticism should be constructive and your reasoning for deleting those posts seems vague, not really applying to that rule.

THIS.

@KittyhawkMontrose
I'm not judging at all, that was just my personal, subjective assessment that has nothing to do with Turkey. However, I acknowledge that I've given this assessment before re-reading the first post of that specific thread, so I never should've stepped into this discussion in the first place.

I suppose the takeaway is that nobody sees exactly eye-to-eye on what qualifies as artistic nudity.

I think your takeaway can be answered by discussion, which should have been allowed in the thread. I much would've rather argued in the forums about Grey's bazooka than doing this any day.

Bruh moment.

fr fr

Ahh sorry man seems like a load of shit. I don't see why you cant just post shit on a free forum that is A rated.

Hopefully you can get that all sorted out soon

Thanks, man 💖 I hope so too.

@KittyhawkMontrose
I can definitely see that there's a bit of an overreach when it comes to nipping discussions in the bud, to put it mildly. It is natural for discussions to repeat themselves in forums.

Amen. People come in at different times, even different years. You gotta be understanding there's always gonna be new people.

To be honest regarding the first thread referenced relating to how porn artists deal with anti-hornies.... Honestly re-reading that thread I kind of understood where Turkey may have felt that thread turned into a shitshow.

Actually, I'm gonna go on a limb and name drop some users to say that ZombieGhost getting involved bringing up the political side of it by talking about "woke" then backing out of it after the fact was the first part of it where the thread was bound to de-rail. Primarily he was bringing up politics unprompted then tried to back out from the discussion saying he didn't want to talk about politics in a porn thread upon being called out for it.

Then you had Template88 fixating on the whole argument on how, in his own words: "While an artist painstakingly painting a preteen girl in a suggestive pose getting fondled on a train is not directly advocating pedophilia and rape outright, he is reinforcing it by manifesting its imagery into the world which is an act that has moral repercussions, even if the goal of doing so was in a media that is warning of the dangers of pedophilia, the actual intention of the artist is lost when viewed by somebody else."

That comment was going to be perceived negatively by NSFW artists regardless because of the implications that it carried.

Personally, I don't think engaging with either of the said users was going to help anything because you have the former being a man-child who is prone to grudge blocking users while sitting on a high horse preaching about what it means to be an artist while being unable to accept criticism offered to him. While the latter locked in on a specific nuance for the wrong reasons and further escalating drama that could have been avoided had he not done that, and that's what led people to getting on his case in that regard because you had people thinking he was accusing all NSFW artists being pedos which isn't the case.

While I think in Template's case he really didn't do a good job at presenting his argument clearly, Zombie on the other hand, in my honest opinion shouldn't even be taken seriously since a lot of what he posts is usually just talking out of his ass. Everyone who has interacted with him in the past knows this.

Both of those users were being problematic in regards to that thread in particular so I can see where that thread was going to evolve into drama that was only going to cause the discussion to go into circles while devolving from any meaningful mature discussion into the exact kind of shit show being reinforced.

Maybe I'm somewhat wrong in that assessment where I'm missing something but... I'm hoping that at the very least this adds some context to where perhaps that thread went south and observing how that thread went. As for the Nude Studies+ and Ai Scrapping threads I can't exactly speak to not having been closely involved with those threads.

Yeah, that's what moderators are supposed to be about: Getting rid of the off-topic, crazy bullshit. Not me trying to keep the boat sailing, saying let's stay on topic, ignoring fucking idiots, only to get blamed for it all when I stand up for myself and another woman. By telling her, ignore them. That they are... Oh, wait. I shouldn't say that. I might get banned for saying that. 😉

@KittyhawkMontrose yeeeeeaaaaaa as much as I understand the why there but that was fighting fire with fire.

I get the frustration though.

Yeah, I'm not too active on the forums for this reason. I just think this behavior is facilitated between mods. I've been lucky it seems, but several of my mutuals get their NSFW art submissions removed all the time for vague reasons or no reason at all (@kazukoto) and while that's not a forum issue necessarily, it just adds to the issue mods have with NSFW art sometime.

Is that what happened to @kazukoto? What the hell.

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